should you “do marketing” during a world pandemic?

We are all living through unforeseen times. It’s called into question normal business practices. Like….is it really the right time to be marketing insurance? Listen as Geralda Ymeraj, CMO of Zinc Insurance, breaks down how she’s led Zinc through their best quarter. Thanks to marketing.

Get the latest on indie agents’ fight for data ownership:

Want to read instead? We’ve got you.

Geralda 0:00

Listen, I mean, can you imagine all the people that are there? Like, what is it? Like, what are you talking about? You’re selling insurance. And I’m like, you didn’t know that zinc is the most protective element in the periodic charts.

Syd Roe 0:15

I didn’t know. Like, where have you been, bro?

Geralda 0:20

That’s amazing.

Geralda 0:22

But you know what, it’s, it’s so cool. And that’s what I love that I look up for that he’s like, I just want it to be something that is not tied to anything specific. And it’s just tied to an idea that you know, whoever’s running it in that year is running with it however they want and so he just likes he’s like, whatever the name is, it just has to be really cool and scream like a possibility. So it’s just funny the kind of conversations that we get to from a brand standpoint because I’ve definitely had moments in the brand where I was like, man, like Excuse me. I thought to myself, as people, this is confusing, too confusing of a name or what’s going on, but it’s funny because it always just starts really interested in conversations, especially when we’re doing things in our community. And they can see signs or banners or us sponsoring their sports team. we get, you know, attention of people just wondering, like, what do you think? And so it’s kind of cool because it forces us to have to explain to them why we chose that name and who we are. And so then, like, we accidentally get into this, you know, brand touch thing and they’re getting to know us and then we get to know them better. So it’s, it’s actually been really helpful having that name.

Syd Roe 1:42

I love it. Okay, so, so you just, this was not a question I was planning to ask, by the way. But now that we’re on this topic, what is it like trying to get inside Seth’s head as far as marketing and branding with this? Is it just like the most confusing place you’ve ever been to in the world?

Geralda 2:04


Syd Roe 2:11

Tell me more. Tell me more.

Geralda 2:13

Yeah, it is, but in a really, really intentional and cool way. So, when I first started working for Seth, and when I first started getting to know him as a person, um, it was a lot of intense things. I mean, he has a lot going on, he knows exactly what he wants. And he’s usually, you know when we have something major going on zinc, you think that’s exactly where his head’s at. And you’re quickly learning that actually, he’s appreciating what’s going on. It’s like, and he had a lot to do with it. But he’s thinking like, you know, 235 10 years ahead and when you learn that about them, and you really believe appreciate that about him, you can kind of figure out where his head is going when he’s talking about this is what the vision is for zinc and, and, and for marketing and what I hope that you guys can all accomplish is if you can kind of keep in mind that he’s usually thinking ahead, you can really appreciate and learn from, you know what he throws out at you because listen, he’s he moves at a very high speed and I think that he assumes that everyone on planet earth also does and it there’s something to that I mean, there’s something to that energy, I just think that it builds an atmosphere of people who feel like they’re all working on something really important with him So, so yeah, he had he has a lot of ideas, which is really cool because I  also hear my other marketing friends that I talked to, and they’re like, man, like, yeah, like the owner. Or my manager doesn’t even like they don’t even know what I do. Like they don’t really care you know? And I wish I had someone to kind of brainstorm with and I’m like, Oh man, I have so much of that you know and yeah and I appreciate that that that everyone that I work with really but especially Seth have a really good idea of branding and marketing and what they believe you know, that zinc should stand for so it’s really cool because and that’s what I miss about. coronas is kind of that office environment with them we always are brainstorming together. Yeah. How?

Syd Roe 4:41

How I’m so you know, I feel like I’ve had the conversation so many times, with not even just insurance agencies, small business owners in general, because marketing seems to always get the backseat to everything else. In it, typically, you know, the talk tracker Ron marketing is like, well, you guys just have to go get some leads. Right? I would love to hear what you like. What do you do? What is marketing? Like what is if you had to describe if you had to, you know, grass to somebody who lives in the desert, right? What? What is marketing? How would you define it?

Geralda 5:22

Um, you know what to me marketing is figuring out what is important to people and why figuring out what makes people tick. It’s kind of it’s the art and the psychology of people. And that’s why it’s really exciting. And for me, of course, there’s the new business of marketing, which is what we all tend to think about when we’re thinking of marketing is those leads and getting new business, you know, through various marketing campaigns, and it definitely is, but it’s also providing as much value to people, whether it be your current customers or new prospects as you can. So, whatever their industry and whatever your initiative, marketing to me is working to give that person in that moment, the highest value, um, you know, and I just the way that I think about it is I always put myself in their shoes. So, you know, when we all think about the future, we’re thinking about spaceships in a million different, you know, things in our head, and to me, it’s every touchpoint that you have throughout your day. So whether it’s, you know, the person you’re getting coffee with in the morning, or, you know, paying your electric bill, whatever it is in life in everyday life that we as humans have to do or select to do. If you are part of that realm of that humans day. That’s marketing to me. So You know, it’s your job to make whatever that moment for that person is feeling as awesome and as meaningful as possible.

Syd Roe 7:12

That was amazing. That was truly that. Dang, I don’t even know how to follow that up. Oh my gosh. All I mean, yes. 100% and I find it well, and here’s why I love that so much in the best way possible because here’s, here’s why I love that so much is that it’s not. When I feel like when people say, you know, oh, you’re a marketer, you know, or can be a marketer, go get me some leads. It’s so self-serving, right? You’re positioning your business as something that takes money from someone else. Instead of saying, right, instead of saying, hey, come be a marketer, help me explain the solution that I have for this person’s problem. To them, right? I mean, it’s just a different way of thinking, right? It’s, the money will come, right? The money will come if you have a good solution. And you know, the people whose problem you’re trying to solve, and you have someone who can communicate it clearly and effectively using the platforms and technology that exist, the money will come. You have to believe that right? But, you can’t start there. You can’t start with the money when you start with the money. The problem is people see through that, and then they define you as that thing. Oh, you just you’re the person who wants money. It’s like, if you know, the companies, it’s like, that’s why the car salesman example always gets pulled on insurance agents, right? Well, the problem with that analogy is that car salesmen are just in it for the money, right? And so how do we redefine ourselves and say, wait for a second, that’s not what we’re in it for. We’re in it to offer advice. We’re in it to offer expertise we’re in it to help you to be a risk manager and these are the specific solutions. We have for these specific people who have these specific problems, right? Like that’s,

Geralda 9:04

the money truly always comes. You know, and, and it just never fails. And if you don’t believe in that, then you’re really going to mess up in a big way sooner or later. I just think that if you take a moment to really ask yourself, like, what am I doing in the grand scheme of things, and we’re so fortunate that, that we all work in an industry where we have such a big part of, of someone’s life that we’re handling and that we’re taking care of. And if you really step back and ask yourself, like, hey, if I were them, what would be the most helpful thing for me? And what would make me feel like, hey, whoever this person is that I’m doing business with cares about me and is taking time to understand me and I feel like I’m being heard at this moment? And So I think if you lead with that, the money always comes because it’s like I don’t know what that saying is, I can’t remember it, but something about you know, it’s easy to get people to come the first time. That’s so easy, but to keep people and to keep them coming back and to get those people to tell their friends that that zinc or whatever agency is really awesome. Um, you know, that takes a meaningful person behind that operation.

Syd Roe 10:29

Yeah, I think you nailed it, and you bring up something else too, which I’d love to touch on. And that is that marketing doesn’t stop at the sale. I mean, maybe it used to, but in today’s world, marketing is the journey that you know, a department or individual takes customers or clients on as well as prospects on for the lifetime of their journey with that particular business. And would you say that’s, Would you say that’s how you define your role, or how you see Mark?

Geralda 11:02

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it’s not about just making that first sale or getting that person in. It’s, it’s about learning more and more about the person. I mean, how much are you gonna learn about someone on the first date? Um, hopefully not too much. But you know, so you’re, you’re after they’re your customers, you have to take a really good look at, of course, not just retention because everyone thinks retention. And of course, I, you know, cross-selling and more opportunities is definitely a part of it. But how can I follow this person, you know, throughout their life and throughout their journey with us to make sure that we’re still as helpful and meaningful to them with their changing circumstances as we can be? And that’s really cool though. But you also have to appreciate that everyone is so different and so your customer base May may vary, which is totally normal. And so, for us, it’s not just about thinking about how to keep the customer, but how are we going to figure out? What is different about our customers, you know, what differs from, you know, our trucking customers, which is our biggest niche right now to our artists? Should we be talking to them in a different way? And if we did start talking to them in a different way, is that meaningful to them? Is that going to then make them start opening up more of our emails and our phone calls and interacting more? And will that then give our service team a stronger relationship with those customers? And so, yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head as far as it’s, it’s a journey and it’s a process. And, you know, the two things that I always go back to and that is, you, you have to have a process in place. That that supports that journey and you have to make sure that you’re fully equipped you to know with tools that can handle that because it’s so crazy and I love college so shout out to all you people with degrees that are in college but it’s like if you get a degree this year and in marketing or in, you know, a certificate and Photoshop or you know, Google Ads it’s basically expired in a month or six months or a year you know, it’s the things are so ever-changing and so evolving, that you just have to have a team and a process and technology in place that can actually help you through that. Because I mean marketing super fun, but there are so many moving parts to it to keep it alive and thriving.

Syd Roe 13:55

Yeah, well said. How I love to step back for a sec and talk to me about you and your personal journey and how you got into marketing. And then how you found Seth and Zink insurance and then what your thought process was, I mean, you know, being a marketer, there are so many different stories that you could tell why insurance, right? Like why an insurance agency?

Geralda 14:27

Yeah, um, so, I guess my disclaimer on this is I’m not great with time and dates, but I’m going to try here. I believe in you the way it kind of started with me and with Seth, I won’t go into my whole life story, but I so I actually, I was working I nannied for many years of my life, and to get me through college, but so that was one of the first jobs I ever had and I actually nannied for like a moms club and a club. Cleveland town. It was very interesting. I learned a lot. And aside from nannying, my other main job was I was waitressing for Bob Evans years and years ago when I was younger. And, and I was going to Akron as a bio major, just really curious and interested in psychiatry. And so that was kind of my intention, I was working at Bob Evans. I eventually ended up leaving, and I started working for a small marketing firm in Lakewood. I actually knew someone who we’d never known personally. It was like a friend of a friend of a friend kind of thing. And, you know, kind of just always talked him about my interest in life and just, I don’t know the exact role that I want to evolve into, but these are the things that are really important to me, and this is kind of what I’ve been doing on the side writing and And just some other things. And, and he happened to own a marketing firm and he’s like, Listen, I want you to take a side job for me. So I ended up taking a side job for him. That led to a couple more side jobs. And eventually, yeah, I was working full time for that marketing firm volt. They’re awesome. And I think it was 2000, late 2014 or 15 that I met Seth, I actually ended up meeting Seth. I was working at this marketing firm for a couple of years at this point. And I ended up meeting Seth a few weeks before I left that job. And it’s so funny. I just remember I told him this recently. I’m like, I remembered him wearing neon green glasses.

Syd Roe 16:27

That’s amazing.

Geralda 16:8

Yeah, that’s amazing. And bright pants to match like the glass rems which is like super intentional, and then just he had this energy, like the sense of urgency which after you left, we all talked about it at the, at the company. It was just interesting because I remember him coming into that meeting almost panicked, like, but in a good way. And I just felt for some reason like that meeting was very important for him. And later it ended up being but that’s kind of how stuff goes into every meeting. Now I know that um, but so I had already left so I didn’t know at the time but that meeting actually led to SAP buying out that marketing firm and having Yeah, and having a full-blown marketing department in the house at Zink which was Crazy. And when we had this conversation, he reminded me he said, like, just that was really an early gorilla. I mean, he’s like, I had that thought at 14, 15. I made it a full-time thing in 2016. And I just knew that I had to have a marketing department in house full time. Wow. Yeah. And I think

Syd Roe 18:24

I think I remember once him describing this was like, this was probably three years ago, maybe four years ago. Now. I remember him describing zinc as a marketing firm that happens to sell insurance. I think it was on a podcast with Brian somewhere. But now, you know, that makes sense. No, that makes sense.

Geralda 18:44

Yeah. We went back and forth between marketing firms and technology companies. But I think when we were getting trademarked and all that stuff, we were like, okay, we can’t tell people that we’re like an art studio when like a tech company right now.

Geralda 19:02

They have to know that

Syd Roe 19:03

you get well and hold on a sec because you guys do have basically an art studio for an insurance agency which is like insane. I think there’s a there’s a Oh my goodness. What musical instrument was stolen by Bob Dylan’s harmonica, the heat? Well, he played it at some concert.

Geralda 19:24

Yeah. That’s in there. Yeah, I will never forget ever in my life, the first time that I walked into sync, which, by the way, I guess is me finishing our story of how I met Seth is the first time I walked in there, which was years, a couple of years after I left that marketing firm that he ended up buying. If they were like, hey, g like, come in. You know, we really think that you’d find a working I’m so interested in and like, we want the team back and things are different, but we think you’d love it and I, I hate to admit this, I guess, but back then, I remember like looking at those text messages from Todd and just thinking like, okay, and zinc insurance though, like what? You know, and I talked to my friends and people in my life and I even looked it up and I’m like, I don’t like what am I really going to be doing there? Like, I don’t think so. And it’s so cool. Like I was so tight with those guys and full-on they were such cool people and he just, he kept reaching out to me. And one day, I was like, Okay, I’m either gonna apply for a Bob Evans corporate marketing role in Columbus because I had evolved and started doing different things within their company as it relates to marketing. And I really loved their company. And so I thought, I’m either gonna go that route, or let me just see what this side thing is real quick, you know, and so I went into that meeting, not knowing would you expect but I walked in and there was Derek has my favorite artists everywhere. There was a harmonica there that was old, like concert photographs. I mean, it was just a crazy looking place. So I was intrigued, I think it really does look like an art studio. But I think that’s reflective of a lot of things that are going on there.

Syd Roe 21:29

Yeah. Well, tell me. Um, so why insurance makes sense. What was it like to start that journey as a marketer inside an insurance agency? I mean, I guess, you know, looking back now, I meet a lot of insurance marketers who always ask me, you know, sort of where do I begin? Where do I start? What’s the first thing and looking back when you first started, what were those initial you know, was that initial year Like, what did you focus on? You know, what were those conversations with Seth? Like, yeah, you were there a lot of strategies, more tactical, just what was it? What was that journey? Like in the beginning? Hmm. Yeah, that’s a big question. I know, I was just throwing all the big questions at you.

Geralda 22:20

Yeah. First of all, I just have to say that it’s it hasn’t been until pretty recently that I’ve realized that if you are in a position right now that you’re an insurance marketer, or you have a road track to becoming a insurance marketer, you are going to have one of the craziest jobs on the planet. And, and I think if I heard someone saying that to me years ago, I would be very confused. But what’s really crazy about why what I just said is true is because this isn’t History. There’s so much space here. So insurance marketing right now insurance as a whole is having the biggest evolution that I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s having a technology revolution that is reminding me of one, you know, businesses started to first go paperless. This is like the next chapter of that. And so that’s huge and, and I know there’s people out there that get it because they’re in it right now. And what’s crazy about that role is that you have so much creative freedom. So if you want to be in marketing and you want creative freedom, you don’t want to deal with a million steps, and 50 different people and departments that have to approve your ideas, which I don’t and if you want to try new things, and learn what is important to people on how you And help them with that then this industry it is like an open canvas. And that’s just something that’s so exciting to me right now is that, that we’re in an industry at a time. That’s, that’s really important. And, and so yeah, that’s what I love about my job is I’ve always wanted to be somewhere where I got to have real business impact. And I got to think about the people side of things and the creative brand side of things.

Geralda 24:37

What was the question?

Syd Roe 24:40

I forgot your answer was so good. I can’t remember what the question was. Well, let me ask you this because you’re right that we are in this time of great change, right. There’s a lot, a lot of different things happening and I think business owners are being faced with a lot of big decisions to make You know around what technology how much to invest in technology. You know, the weight of marketing is growing because we just the way that we tell our stories business isn’t so rooted in offline interactions. There are more online interactions that are generating and creating and powering that story. So, you know, looking at how I guess I look at the business, a lot of insurance agencies right now are going through an incredibly tough time with the Coronavirus. I mean that I’ve gotten phone calls off with, you know, from friends who some of our Some are furloughed. Some have lost their jobs. I’ve talked to insurance agencies that are, you know, struggling with the work from the home aspect and not being able to be in the office. And not from a mental standpoint, but from an operational standpoint. And, you know, the question is also like, you know, the big question right now is do you even sell insurance? Right? I mean, is this even a time to be prospecting when businesses are, you know, they’re shutting down, they’re struggling operationally, even outside of the insurance industry. There’s a lot of fear. There’s a lot of unknown. Is this really the time to be talking about insurance and prospecting and, you know, at the site, save time, this is all going on? I’m hearing all this in the industry, right. I’m listening to podcasts and watching social media and talking to people on the phone and texting people. And the same time I’m hearing all of this I’m talking to, you know, Yousef, and Chris, and I’m hearing you know, zinc is having one of the best quarters that you guys have ever had in your history is like, you know, 11 to 12 years, it during this world pandemic, and know what is going on over there. Right. Um, and you know, as I was sort of sifting through what’s happening and how this is happening in zinc, um, you know, I kept hearing again and again, well, marketing, right marketing is, is still going we’re still telling our story, we’re still reaching out to people. I mean, how are you as a marketer? Like, how are you handling this pandemic right now? I mean, we’re about the same age, right? So it’s like, this has not happened in our lifetime. I mean, I can think of 911 and 2007 2008. You know, recession. And that’s really it. And this is supposed to be worse. So, like, how are you as a person handling this and then how in the heck are you keeping Zink running full throttle. through it as well, like, I’m just I’m so impressed, I guess.

Geralda 28:04

Well, and thanks, but I mean, look, we were just surprised. And unprepared. I mean, listen, if you said that you were ready for Crota, like really? Maybe you were and kudos to those people. But yeah, I mean, we weren’t expecting this either. And so we were just as concerned with everything that everyone else was concerned about, you know, what’s gonna happen next? And are we working from home and that ended up being a yes for us. So basically, one morning, Seth just asked me and Chris to go to the office and he’s like, Okay, what do you think we should do? I think that this is a word that is hiding. And so let’s just do it. And we ended up telling the team that hey, in the next few hours, let’s just focus on getting your remote technology ordered and in place. Getting you really comfortable with being able to log into everything at home and understanding Google Hangouts meat, and everything else. And so that’s what we did. And it wasn’t easy. And we didn’t really know how that would go. But we and this is gonna sound so cheesy but said, I know you and you know me and you’ve been at zinc like a million times now and so you know, I’m not lying to you, like, the people that I work with are just, they’re so amazing. They really are and they’re just, they’re super cool, hardworking, honest people. And, and they’re all so different. We’re all different. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. But there, they’re just, they’re good people. There, they’re curious. They want to evolve. They want to help. They’ve come so far. And, and so they, they were really willing. And they were like, heck yeah, like let’s do this thing. And we’ve never done it before. And I don’t really have an at-home office. But let’s go do it. And so we had, we had people that were really willing to prove to everyone that this is a really crazy thing that’s going on. But hey, Zack, we always, we always say that we’re so happy and proud of our people and our technology, like now’s the moment to really, really show that and really get to bask and what that means. And so that’s what they did. And I’m so proud of us for that. Everyone was really eager to perform and we just, it’s cool because we just had, we still do, we have 830 every morning we do video chats with every single person in the company and we kind of just go around the room and we talk about how we’re doing personally. And then we go through company updates and questions, suggestions, and all that stuff and kind of just getting on track for the day for all of us. And, and we’re more connected now as a team than ever, which is so crazy. Like, it almost makes no sense to me when I think about it. But, it’s true. We’re and it’s because people are willing. And Chris has worked really hard with this team. And I’ve worked hard with the people in my team to kind of get a process in place that has a really good rhythm all year round. And I think you know, I guess I’m thinking about your question of, Hey, I heard you were still marketing, in your trucking niche through Coronavirus and why are you doing that? And yeah, I just think we really care about providing people with the best thing that we possibly can as a company, and we try to be a little bit ahead of that. And I guess for me, and for my team in marketing, it’s, it’s just having your assets and your content ready. So what’s your vision? Where’s your niche going? Do you have a couple of pieces on hand that you can throw out there if you have to, so that you’re not scrambling last minute, if you see a shift and your campaign or that, you know, something in society or, or news is happening? And so having those things on hand and being really aware of what’s happening around you, and for us having a system that can support acting at the moment, that’s what was really important to us. And so, with truckers on, we’ve been investing in that campaign for a long time. And I, I don’t remember if I copied her forward to do on that email that I sent to Carrie when we were having that discussion, but it’s been a long journey with the trucking campaign and, and so sometimes when people ask me about that or you know if there’s just that person who’s seen those screenshots and things like wow, there’s like a magic thing that they’re doing or a button that they’re pushing or a technology that they’re on and no, that’s not the case at all. It’s such a journey for us. But it’s really cool because along the way if you’re doing it right, for the right reasons, you’re learning a lot. And that’s exactly what it’s been for us is it hasn’t happened overnight, and it hasn’t been easy, necessarily. Um, but it’s just really taken a willingness on my part to say, Hey, I’m willing to shift and do whatever I need to do to make this happen. So I think that’s, what’s important is just having that process and that willingness in place to act at the moment.

Syd Roe 34:19

Yeah, I mean, I guess I think about and I was thinking about this before we got on, like a compare contrast, right. So you take an agency that, you know, has not invested in technology has not really built out any sort of digital presence, any sort of digital marketing, and when you compare them to an agency that has, and you put them both inside a world pandemic, where now there’s fear and hesitation around what story to tell. There’s also a lack of human interaction offline human interaction at all the interaction we’re having right now with other people is all online. You literally mean the government is literally telling us Do not go within six feet of another person. Right? And so then you compare and contrast and I just wonder how an agency that’s not been prepared or preparing to be online and to connect with other human beings digitally. How they fare right now, right? So I think you could take and the reason I say that is like, take the trucking niche, for example, right? Because we’ve talked to about how, you know, you know, very for right now, or right now, as the restaurant niche would probably be a really hard niche to sell insurance and or market insurance or even just have conversations with people because most of those are going to be, you know, really tough conversations. And, but, you know, so the trucking niches are peculiar or in this environment because they are still running and society does still need trucks. But even given that you’d have two agencies, one that doesn’t have that presence online and one that does, and they’re going to have very different results, right. So, I, I so, right. So it’s like, I think there’s a come to Jesus moment, there’s like a, there’s a moment where I just wonder if people are looking themselves in the mirror saying, like, dang it. You know,

Geralda 36:25

I agree with you. I’ve been thinking about that a lot, you know, that, that this whole pandemic is forcing people to their personal lives and their business lives ask themselves, how ready Am I can I thrive in Can I do business in a pandemic? Um, and, you know, that example you just gave on truckers? Yeah, that’s, that’s really awesome. And you know, that was the result, of having a process in place that can support something happening at the moment. understanding what’s happening at that moment, by meeting with your team every day and analyzing what’s going on. But I think if you just completely remove that new business aspect of it, which I know is always there, but I think more than anything in this pandemic, what’s been really cool and interesting for me is connecting with our current customers. If you just take a couple of steps back and you think like a marketer, what is everything that you would love to learn about a prospect or a niche or specialty or you know, a list, whatever it is, as a segment that you’re marketing to? What if What are all those data points that you would love to know about that person? And you know, it’s a long list because the more that you know about someone the more likely that you can have something for them that’s meaningful, and that’s going to result in a sale. So, marketers want to know everything. But learning everything is actually a lot harder than you then you think the deeper you get into the game. And so what I’ve started to realize is like, holy crap stop, as mouthwatering and juicy as the new trucking leads that are, by the way, killing it. And I’m so happy about that. Because right now, marketing is almost 100% of the activity that we’ve got going on in commercials. So, trucking, it’s humming, and we were ready for that to happen. But yeah, I just think that if you take a step back and you ask yourself, what are all the things that I wish I knew about prospects? Do you even know about those things regarding your current customers, this is a moment where you are going to have so much volume on phones and emails, and whatever else is happening in your agency people are going to be calling and so for me, I thought about that, as it was happening, and I was like, dang. Like, I could really take this moment to learn more about our customers and, and maybe try new things when I’m communicating with them. Um, you know, our niches have various times of year that that are busier and our current customers are either having a big renewal or whatever those major things that are happening to them are, but it’s very rare that it’s niche agnostic or book agnostic that everyone is calling you at the same time. And that’s exactly what’s happening now with Corona and so, I thought, well, I’m going to have an Every person across the board calling us and how can we make this as meaningful as possible for them? So we just started meeting a lot with our team with our service sales and with myself and, and just talking about, hey, what’s really important to your customers right now? And what do you think that they’re going to be calling in regarding? And okay, well, if those are the things and if this is day one, and we’re temperature checking, and on day one, two and three, we’re getting these kinds of calls. Let’s, you know, let’s make a call to marketing. And so I’ll get the call and they did have this is what’s going on, let’s start sending out communication with their customers and, and at that moment, it’s so important to meet with every single department and beyond that same call to talk about that, because there’s a lot going on in that moment. Not only are you answering really important questions about billing and coverage right now. But you know, you also have this important moment where maybe you can ask that person on the phone, which is what we’re doing right now. Hey, like, Can I get an updated email address for you? Because they’ll have that tag. Because, you know, I was able to see in my marketing tool that this is one of 40 people that have undeliverable email messages, or I’m sorry, email addresses, which doesn’t seem like a big deal at the moment. But we can’t communicate to those people ever by email and that’s actually that’s huge. So, or this person doesn’t have a mobile number, so they can’t be enrolled in anything related to text messaging, or this person. We haven’t had any kind of communication within eight months, and they’re about to get a survey. So let’s reintroduce the brand. There in this demographic, they typically don’t like videos, but let’s talk to them about why zinc does send out videos and emails and it’s because we care so much about their feedback and how we’re, we’re scoring for them and we want to change and improve for them. And so I started thinking about marketing and that sense of if you go back to how you can take yourself out of it, which is I want money, money, money. How can I be the most valuable I can because listen, when someone’s in a moment in their life, your job as a whatever marketer is not to try to change their mind about going into a different moment. That’s not what’s happening. They’re already in the moment. And they’ve already chosen the moment and it’s up to you to make that the best moment possible for them. And, and that’s how you get them coming back. And so yeah, our current customers are the most important thing to us. So we’ve been messaging them regularly. just super intentionally and it’s, it’s just so cool because I’m learning so much about the customers that we’re in business with, you know, and it’s an emotional moment for everyone. So those conversations that our service team is having on the phone, it’s, it’s really crazy. Like you told me earlier on this call is like, this whole thing is going to be in like history books. It’s a crazy thing that’s going on and I just, I just, I try my best every morning to step back and think like, how can we be super, super meaningful? You know, and, and even on those calls, I’ve learned so much about our truckers that’s such a crazy cool niche that I’m so happy I got into. And it’s interesting because in our state, we’re actually investing a lot of money into roadwork. So we’re going to have a lot more truckers on the road and so We really care about those guys. And those guys are so valuable to us and are a big part of our brand. And so right now at the moment, we were prepared to help them because there were a lot of new truckers on the road. But at the same time, we’re asking ourselves like, what are they concerned about? What are they worried about? What are the questions that they’re asking themselves that they need the answers to? And I think that if you lead with that, you’ll always kind of figure out regardless of how big or small your marketing department in your agency is, I just think that if you put yourself in the customer’s shoes, you’re always going to make the right decision.